Republicans are trying to rig the midterms. Will Democrats actually fight back, or cave?: A conversation with Beto O’Rourke

The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Maximillian Alvarez:

So we’re here with former US Congressman from the state of Texas, Beto O’Rourke, who just gave a keynote address at the NETROOTS Conference in New Orleans. Congressman, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I really appreciate it. I really want to dig into some of what you were saying on stage just a few minutes ago. But first I wanted to start with the high stakes political showdown going on in your state right now as we speak, right? So dozens of Democratic Texas lawmakers have strategically left the state to deny the house legislature or quorum on a vote of Republicans gerrymandered congressional map. And now Governor Abbott’s threatening to call in the Texas Rangers. Donald Trump is saying the FBI may get involved. There was a bomb threat called in to the hotel where these lawmakers are staying and Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has launched an investigation into your group powered by people for financially supporting these lawmakers. So can you just give us a kind of up-to-date account on where the hell things stand now, where you see this going and how far you and Texas Democrats are willing to go to win this fight?

Beto O’Rourke:

This one is for all the marbles, and I just think it’s really important that everyone understand that the election of 2026 is going to be decided or stolen in the summer of 2025. And the reason that these guys are in full panic mode, you’re right about everything that’s going on, that the bomb threats vowing to hunt down these legislators using the Department of Public Safety State troopers using the FBI under cash Patel. John Cornyn was bragging about that on Twitter yesterday, filing with the Texas Supreme Court to vacate their seats to throw these guys out of office, threatening to file second degree felony charges against them for God only knows what the level of urgency and desperation on the other side is connected to the fact that if we stop them, if we stop this steal, if we win control of the house, Donald Trump will have a reckoning.

There will be a check on his lawlessness. There’s going to be accountability for the crimes and corruption and the coverup with whatever he did with Jeffrey Epstein. And there’s going to be the prospect of fair and free elections going forward. Those are the stakes. They get that on our side. We have to match that urgency and we actually have to overcome theirs because if we fail to stop this, if we don’t win power in the house, the consolidation of authoritarian power in America is going to be nearly unstoppable. What that means for us, more massed, plain, close agents without warrants or badges picking up everyday Americans, US citizens, immigrants, God only knows because there’s no due process. It means more of Trump’s political opponents targeted for vengeance and retribution and violence. And you and I both know, but I think everyone who’s not paying attention needs to hear this.

They just passed a bill that adds 45 billion to immigration and customs enforcement for new detention capacity. We have the lowest levels of immigration in recorded history. We have the highest levels of immigration, roundups and sweeps in American history. We have the largest number of detention cells already. Why are they building $45 billion more of this stuff? It’s because first they come for the immigrant, then they come for the child of the immigrant, then they come for their political opponents. That is our future, and we’ve got to know that now because if we allow the moment to pass without a fight, it is going to be over before we know it. So having the backs of these 54 Texas Democrats is everything right now. We’ve got to keep them out there persisting, ultimately prevailing, and then we’ve got to pick up some seats in some other places.

You and I were talking about how the Democratic Party has unfortunately written off so many so-called red states, but I was just in Oklahoma City two nights ago. 1500 people came out 15 months before an election. They were fired up to win that congressional district in Oklahoma City the night before we were in Omaha, Nebraska, Don vacancy. We should totally clean up there. I mean, that is ours to lose. So we’ve got to fight on every single front, and we should only open this season to fighters. Fighters only, right? Fighters wanted, fighters will be supported. If we fight, we’re going to win.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, and I think a lot of people are going to be very excited to hear that. And frankly, I was just back home in Southern California in the neighborhoods I grew up in, interviewing families who were being hit by these raids, talking to my own family about walking with copies of our passports. It’s as real as it can get for our communities. And when we are facing open lawlessness from the federal government that is openly defined, court orders in Southern California across the country right now, and with Texas Republicans weaponizing the law against their political opponents. How do you fight that? What does that fight look like that can match this level? You talked about on stage, it’s like we’re getting our asses beat. There are no referees, and we’re looking around saying like, Hey, who’s going to call the foul? So how do we respond to that kind of lawlessness?

Beto O’Rourke:

You and I both know this line that President Obama quoted about the arc of the moral universe bending towards justice. And I know that you read it the right way and probably most of your viewers do, but there are too many in our party and my party who felt like that arc just kind of bent of its own accord. Maybe we’re not making progress quickly enough, but sure enough, it is going to come. And I think one of the big lessons, a rude awakening for me personally, is we won abortion access in 1973. We won full political and democratic rights in the Voting Rights Act in 1965, civil rights in 1964. We think that once we’ve won these victories, the fight is over. In 2018, we stopped Donald Trump’s family separation. We protested. We rallied. It was one of the few executive actions that he actually rescinded because of the level of public pressure.

But then what did we do after that? We elected a Democrat. He had control of the White House, the House, and the Senate, and didn’t use that power to change our immigration laws and help those who are now being rounded up, who, by the way, and it bears repeating, even though everyone knows this. These are folks who are here illegally paroled in place by Biden or Trump or Obama or Bush for that matter. These are green card holders, and these are US citizens who are being rounded up illegally, detained illegally, incarcerated illegally and deported illegally to God, literally only knows where because they’re not publishing the names or the facts or the information. So the fight is for everything right now. But if and when we win this fight, then we then have to use this power in a way that I haven’t seen a democratic president use power since maybe FDR who really used that thing for all that it was worth. And look what he did. We were, for the next 80 years living in Roosevelt’s America, we’re now living in Trump’s America, and we cannot allow this to stand. But the Democrats have to change their posture and position. They have to get off the back foot onto the front, off of defense, onto offense. Stop waiting for the other guys to punch us first, and then we’re going to react. We punch first and we punch harder.

Maximillian Alvarez:

Well, I think that again, we’re hearing from our audience, working class people, union, non-union, red state, blue state, we’ve been talking to folks for years and I think one of the points that we extracted from 2024 was not that that election was a referendum on how much people love Donald Trump, but to be honest, it was a referendum on how much people hate the Democrats and have exhausted all their faith that the democratic opposition is actually going to fight for working people. And so facing what we’re facing now, what are you and other Democrats calling for real fight? What are you going to put on the line to show these folks that this isn’t just the right message, this is the right strategy for meeting this moment.

Beto O’Rourke:

Yeah, I think you’re right About 2024, I think we confused or the Democratic party confused. A lot of Americans talking about saving stuff, saving democracy. People were like, what the fuck are you talking about? Democracy in Texas? I can’t vote. I can’t register to vote because I’m young, because I’m a student, because I’m a person of color, because I live in a low income neighborhood. We have effectively allowed millions of people to be disenfranchised. They know there’s no democracy in Texas, or those who watch Elon Musk spend $300 million to purchase the outcome of a presidential election. I don’t think you’d call that democracy. So instead of fighting to save stuff that isn’t working for people, an economy that clearly isn’t working for people, an economy that had transferred trillions of dollars of wealth under Republican and Democratic presidents alike from working people to the wealthiest in America, instead of saving that stuff because we don’t want it saved, want it changed.

I think we have to also fight for what we believe in inside. We were talking about how about the Democrats fight to end America’s complicity in the bombing and starving and slaughtering of children in Gaza and use the awesome power of this country to help establish a Palestinian state, sovereign and independent where we work for the safety of the Palestinian people, the safety of the Israeli people instead of starting new wars and the ones already going on, sow some peace and reap some prosperity. That’s something to fight for, fighting for an economic democracy where folks can afford to work just one job where you can afford to teach school. I dunno what it’s like in Southern California, but in Texas, if you’re a school teacher, you’re also working another or a third job just to make ends meet. Try buying a home on a teacher’s salary.

What if we guarantee that if you work at it, you will be able to afford that home and that you don’t have to prove work history or jump through hoops to see a doctor when you’re sick or before you’re sick, and that you have access to fresh and healthy food, clean drinking water. I mean the shit that keeps you from getting sick in the first place. Why is it so hard? Or why has it been so hard in the past for Democrats to be able to articulate what we’re fighting for, how your life will be better once we win power and then show people when we win power? This is a line that I shared from Mandela Barnes out of Wisconsin. You drive that car like you stole it. You run the tables on these guys every single priority. You go after it and you get it done. And that’s the FDR way as I see it. And he, more than any president of the 20th century, transformed this country for the better. And I think we need to get that spirit back in the 21st.

Maximillian Alvarez:

And I think part of that, as you also said on stage, is recognizing the threat that is posed by the opposition that this fascist party is not something to be compromised with. It’s something to be fought against, and you have to have a message that is going to make people want to believe in that fight. And I wanted to sort of end on that note because like you said, it needs to be both a vision for what we’re fighting for, not just what we’re fighting against, but also in terms of stopping the onslaught and ensuring that that fight can continue. How do you build a united front against authoritarianism in a state like Texas? What does that look like in the role the Democratic party plays, but also the other constituencies and organizations and groups of people that need to be brought into that united front? What does that look like in Texas?

Beto O’Rourke:

Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you, we’re holding a town hall meeting in Abilene, Texas on Sunday of this week. And if you know anything about Abilene, Texas, it is so red, you can see it glowing from outer space. It’s not a place where you expect to see Democrats and therefore the Democratic Party hasn’t shown up. And so you haven’t had someone on the ground in Abilene except for the folks who live there. I’m talking about statewide Democrats or national Democrats, the folks who have the resources to help people in Abilene, no one’s there talking about saving our local schools from these voucher scams. No one’s talking about saving immigrants and Americans who are born here or born somewhere else from these warrantless roundups. No one’s talking about the importance of unions and banding together so that we have fair wages, safe working conditions, and everybody does better because everyone is doing better.

No one’s making our side of the argument. And so we cannot wonder when we fail to win power, not just in Abilene, but as you know, Abilene’s a significant part of the state of Texas. Those votes flow from these counties big and small, alike to the top of the ticket. If we’re not doing the groundwork day in and day out in every one of these counties, 254 in Texas and every one of these states around the country, they were not truly a national party. And to your point about building coalitions, it can’t just be people who are already Democrats. You got to open the door to folks who voted for Donald Trump without judging them or accusing them or telling them they were wrong. I think people had legitimate reasons for choosing something that they thought was going to bring change in their lives. You and I were talking about how too much of the Democratic Party’s messaging was like, it’s going okay.

We’re just going to keep this thing the same. We just want to prevent Donald Trump from gaining power instead of an ambitious aspirational agenda. So let’s not even just bring in Trump voters as well as democratic voters. Let’s bring in people who aren’t involved in the political process right now and people who aren’t traditionally included in political conversations. And we won’t do that by asking them to come to us. We got to go to them. And so whether that’s union halls or senior high school classrooms or community college campuses or bars or nightclubs or wherever people gather, I think our secret weapon is showing up face-to-face, person to person, connecting in a way that is so profoundly powerful. If we’ll do that work as tough and as much patience as it requires and as long as it takes, I think we then have a real shot at winning power and using it. Any final words before we break? I’m just so glad for what you’re doing, for what the people who have come here are doing. And for the fight that I see as I travel this country, I mean, it may not be reflected all the time and the leadership of the Democratic Party, but the people are out there and they’re already fighting with everything they’ve got. We just need to bring everybody together in this fight and now win this power.